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Bash/Whirlwind

All things barbarian.

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Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:25 pm

Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:19 am

Bash/Whirlwind

#1 Make whirlwind initiate combat.
#2 Reduce the penalty of fly with bash.
#3 Make the 'darkrisings' effect non-penalty to barbarians.

Posts: 19

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:39 am

Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

So I've posted lengthy discussions on this subject before and I wish I would have kept them for something like this. I'll keep this short since I'm sure many have
been part of this discussion in some way. Once the fly change went in, there are only 2 active barbs that still log in, and I am one of them. The change crushed
the class. There have been those who I have argued with that said barbs have other abilities that make them useful and you still don't need it. Well the only
legitimate argument to that is the regent which I will be the first to admit is amazing. Once that information was put out there, three barbs started to take advantage
of the regeneration during combat, quickly after those people became successful with that the ticks were randomized. Barbs regen is no longer an argument.
When you take away regen and bashes usefulness well there really is no other argument, warriors are now more useful than barbs can be because trip isn't effected
by fly, and they can do pretty much everything a barb can do plus magic.

Then there is always the argument that was presented to me, hey just recreate like everyone else who played barbs did. Yes, that is a possibility but just accepting
it without trying to have anything done about it does not solve the problem, and creates another dead class in the game, which is not something that we should be
shooting for.

There are two quick solutions for this, don't change the fly effect, but let us initiate with whirl, whirl is not as effective as bash, so those who think bash is to
overpowered, an argument which I do not understand, this is a fair solution and a very easy fix. Also you can simply remove the fly effect and put bash back to
the way it was for like 12 years, just saying.

I don't like the suggestion of making the very few items that are in the game that make you fly, not have the fly effect. That means that all barbs have to wait for
them to become available through quest rewards, it's been proven over and over that 90% of quests, melee classes cannot compete with magic classes since we have
to wait for 70% of the fight to be over before melee classes can start doing real damage. Quest mobs are damn near impossible to hit before kick. When an item
does become available for sale everyone will know that this barb MUST HAVE this piece and will completely take advantage of a class defect and overcharge the hell
out of them. Also this requires barbs to give up a slot, and god knows how much hit dam they will have to loses as well just to fix what was broken by a change. I
don't think that is the most fair fix, if it can even be called a fix at all.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:23 am

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

Or...

#1 Make it so fly cast on others is considered a negative effect (subject it to a saves roll)
#1.1 And prevent any creature without fly from being pushed, dragged or following others into areas that require fly

#2 Implement a command allowing the removal of the effect of any beneficial spell - because it simply doesn't make sense a character being incapable of having control over the "good" magic he's affected by. Hell! It could even be something as simple as: cast cancel "magic ward" or cast cancel "fly" , with the same success rate as the spell being cancelled.

#3 "Roll back" barbarian to how it used to be: bash bashing normally (+sprawling ocasionally) and whirlwind whirlwinding like warriors

I personally would prefer a combination of options #1 and #2 - that way the game becomes richer:
- "Fly barbarian" counterplay continues existing
- "Flown barbarian" counterplay is created (+ "hasted spellcaster" + "cancel specific harmful spell without messing with other spells")

Posts: 42

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:42 pm

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:42 pm

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

How about just adding a command to the game called Land. Basically make it so flying chars can land, like Giths can use Vis to be seen. Pretty helpful when you consider Draconian Weres and Avariels are ALWAYS flying. I don't even bother to log my Avariel Barb now since the change.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:59 pm

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

'Land' was actually my initial idea for option #2, but figured that being able cancel any beneficial spell would help everyone.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

OK, so here's the skinny. I talked to Zalyriel and the reason whirlwind was never changed to initiate combat was due to having to completely re-write the skill to do so. Instead of doing this, it was placed on hold while Seraphs were completed. We've taken another look at it, and instead of altering whirlwind, we are altering bash, changing significance fly has on bash, BUT NOT REMOVING IT. We'll be making it live, soon and want all the feedback you can give us. The more details, the better. "It still sux" will probably be ignored. :P

Posts: 320

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

Let us know when it's in and we'll work on getting you feedback.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Posts: 33

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:23 am

Post Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

It's in pal.

Edit: That's what she said.

Posts: 52

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:49 pm

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:14 am

Re: Bash/Whirlwind

It still sucks.

Bash idea: trip-bash-t11.html

Whirlwind idea: whirlwind-t292.html

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