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Game Reboot

Archive of ideas that have been implemented or refused.

Posts: 15

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:55 pm

Post Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:42 am

Game Reboot

ok let's get this out of the way: i think dr has a whole lot wrong with it (if you think it's great and awesome how it is, look harder)

the pk sucks. anyone who wants to claim it's good just needs to look at the last 10 or 5 years of pkers leaving, general sentiment towards pk turning against it, amount of actual pk going on excluding curb stomps when pkers show up to beat the **** out of the people who don't care about it, and all the writing and complaining about how overcomplicated of a system it is not made any better by monopolization of pk scripting if you're not part of the good ol' boy in crowd who has it. if i wanted to learn video game calculus over a year to finally develop the system mastery to play a game against smug elitist shitheads, i'd just go play league. at least there i can get a match more than once a month.

the pvm sucks. every single mob in the game is an absolute joke to fight and can be soloed with no risk. maybe 2 classes are mechanically interesting and not the same **** with different text. our endgame is grinding for soul gems or waiting for when the staff decide to give quest items or tokens. as a video-game, we're an mmo that ends its grind treadmill in about 4 days with ****-all to do afterwards. that's a bad boring game people move on from. dr is a bad boring game people move on from.

the rp sucks. i'll be fair here, a lot of the rp can be very good. but on the whole, it sucks. i don't want to **** on the people who actually do things, but most events i've been to in the last few years have been rail-roaded fanfiction or obviously not fully thought out. player to player stuff tends to be a lot better than world events. but on the whole when some world-encompassing storyline starts up it's the cringe train all the way to rolleye central when whatever ******* villain sue shows up, acts evil for a few weeks then dies in a mob killing quest. bigger guild or race or whatever storylines inevitably fail because we don't have enough players to roleplay a dinner party god forbid something that needs more than 3 folks online and committed to it at once.

the community sucks. let's be completely honest here: dark risings's community does not get an A+ when it comes to managing the dark risings community. there's a nice thread somewhere about this already, but dr is an endless adventure of people in power trying to jack each other, and their friends, off instead of running a damn game. as it turns out, when you have a pool of like two dozen people who all know each other, give some of them masks to remain unknown unless they quietly whisper who they are to their friends, and have them lord over the other people they all know, bad **** happens. like i see the site mentions new admins calene and minox, i 100% promise you those are people we all know and probably routinely talk to but i'm not supposed to know who they are for some ******** reason or another. speaking of which getting into the whole underbelly of ooc drama and backscratching while also trying to enforce a curtain between staff and players and has anyone said how stupid all this is. it doesn't help we've had three or so years of imps and admins who, frankly, had their heads up their asses and ran the game with spite and forcing the community to appeal to them and their whims instead of the other way around

now here's what i find most fucked up: i can talk to pretty much any of you individually and we can agree on most of this: pk is a broken mess and has been for almost a decade. pvm is really bad. rp needs some new direction to go in because what we've been doing isn't too compelling. we consistently have trouble policing ourselves and the whole staff vs player thing has never, ever been resolved.

so why are we in the same place we've been in for about 4 years now? do we just get more incompetent the more of us are together? is it all just somebody else's problem and not mine? is it just too fucking hard to get anything changed in this game? is it the people who actually can change it blind to it all? is it all too focused on one person, the coder, getting it fixed? is there's just SO MUCH **** that's broken that we can't hope to finish it all in our lifetimes?

i think it's all of these things

so i propose a reboot. we will begin again from scratch. when a boat has too many leaks, we don't sit there scratching our *** thinking
"well one thing at a time let's talk about how patch this hole first"
"no this is how the boat maker envisioned it if you fill that hole you change the boat into something that isn't the boat"
"here is a spreadsheet about how much water that hole is pouring into the boat"
"come on guys don't rock the boat the hole is fine"
you fucking ABANDON SHIP

we buy some new server space. idk who "owns" dark risings currently and pays the bills and runs the server and such, but they're voted off the island now. we need a way to be sure whoever's in charge of the space won't go full ******* and pull the plug on us. maybe it should be open source and the source put up somewhere so if they do somebody else can continue the game, or some sort of council of several people managing it, i dunno.

we restart the game from scratch. yes, we lose a lot of ****. to be fair, we can probably import some of it over depending on how dr's licensing works (iirc you lose all rights and dr owns your writing and can do whatever the **** it wants with it). this isn't even a bad thing to begin with, because most of the **** we have already is, well, ****. it's **** and we're wanting to overhaul most of the game and its mechanics anyway, this is just building a new car instead of trying to turn a game boy into a refrigerator. personally i vote we use a different codebase because if how dr plays is any indication rom is a clunky as **** engine but i don't know anything about that so

we need coders. actually open source would probably be nice here because relying on one guy to fix the entire game is not working out so well for us, and hasn't in the past, and probably won't work well in the future. minimize the amount of "oops our coder left lol" point of failures possible. making a buildport anyone can join and **** around in wouldn't hurt either, no application or appeal to admin or whatever needed, just go. i wonder how much discussion could be gained or lost if everybody got to look at the actual stuff under the hood instead of staff and coder going teehee i know all this stuff and i'm so smart and i'll talk condescending to you idiots who don't know anything, if only you were smart enough to have my privileged access to source code

no ********, no tricks, none of that ooc **** or "hey im a brand new person thats an admin now lol psst im really your friend of 7 years". we know who you play, we know what your position is, we know what you contributed code or build wise and all that jazz. we are a small community and we all know each other and our goal is to entertain each other, let's start acting like it instead of some ******* bureaucracy

no i don't expect anybody to go "yeah this is a good idea let's do this" but i'm going to be nice and profane and blunt: if you seriously think we'll be seeing any meaningful progress in one, two, i'll say maybe up to five years, you're a fucking idiot with no sense of history. ****, we can't keep staff for a year, god forbid a design goal. how many goddamn years of a broken-*** shitty game being the same broken-*** shitty game is it going to take before maybe, just maybe, we can acknowledge that it's doomed to stay a broken-*** shitty game no matter how much we talk and moan and poke at spaghetti code.

that does'nt mean we abandon it (ok yeah i guess this post is about abandoning it lol) and go make levels on mario maker now or something, we have people eager to do **** and make change happen. instead of fighting and wrestling with the eight million invisible tumbleweed *********** things blocking change from happening such as EVERYTHING BEING BROKEN FOREVER, we take that energy and make things happen where they can best happen; someplace else, someplace fresh and clean and new.

we could just remake dr or maybe something new, we just have enough people seriously brimming with creative energy and the power to change **** that i just don't understand why so little happens for so long, and this is kind of my final solution to figuring out what the deal is.

or we can stay on our leaky-*** boat writing faux-intellectual ******** on the nature of our leaky boat, that's ok too

and just so this isn't just another post about someone bitching about everyone else and how the game is bad and not actually doing anything, i'm willing to pledge a bit of action on this idea: IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SERIOUSLY LIKE THE IDEA OF "PROJECT: STARTING ALL THE HELL OVER" TO THE POINT WHERE IT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, I WILL PUT MONEY DOWN FOR A YEAR OF HOSTING FOR THE NEW GAME. if yall actually say "yes let's go", i will finance it. i will fucking finance this roller coaster then hope to god you all follow through so i didn't waste money lmao.

tl;dr interest check: **** this noise, destroy everything, rebuild from ashes, i'll pick up the tab

Posts: 15

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:55 pm

Post Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:44 am

Re: Game Reboot

and you know it's really really easy to say "what start from new and delete all we have not that's stupid your an idiot" but before you hit that post button i would like to ask you to stop, think about it, maybe take a few hours or a day or so, seriously weigh everything out, before making some kneejerk lolnope response. i wouldn't write so fucking much about something so on-its-face-stupid if i didn't seriously believe it would be a maybe not good but definitely viable route for us as a community and a game to go in

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Game Reboot

[quote="jjjmmm"] we have people eager to do **** and make change happen. instead of fighting and wrestling with the eight million invisible tumbleweed *********** things blocking change from happening such as EVERYTHING BEING BROKEN FOREVER, we take that energy and make things happen where they can best happen; someplace else, someplace fresh and clean and new.

we could just remake dr or maybe something new, we just have enough people seriously brimming with creative energy and the power to change **** that i just don't understand why so little happens for so long, and this is kind of my final solution to figuring out what the deal is.
Do we really have people eager to make it happen?

As a big fan of tabletop RPGs, I usually compare DR to them. In my opinion, what we currently have is a fairly well-built scenario (Rhia), with poor mechanics (skills, spells, classes, races, attributes and such could be a lot better) and a huge problem between the DMs (the guys that create the story) and the other players: the story has always been somewhat forced into players, up to a point where some would just look at the roleplay being developed and ignore (either because they didn't like it or were excluded from it).

Think of it this way: you can only create an adventure if there are enough players to participate. Creating a story is quite consuming. Now...as a DM, it is your job to know what sort of adventure would interest your players because there is nothing worse than looking at your players and seeing them bored (remember: tabletop RPG)...and I believe that's partially what happened with Dark Risings: players didn't (or couldn't) signal what sort of game they wanted to play and DMs had to guess for themselves.

So the real question is: What do we want Dark Risings to be as a game?

Do we want it to be a roleplaying platform?
Fine, but then we (staff and players) will have to work towards it through creating deep characters (good descriptions, lore, personality - the sort of stuff that really marks your character), communicating and roleplaying with each other and so on...

Do we want it to be a text-based hack n' slash?
Cool, but then we will have to work towards enhancing the PvP and PvM aspect of the game. This includes polishing the game mechanics (gearing, mobs, skills, spells, attributes, etc) and balancing them so that classes are more or less competitive with each other. By the way, when the majority of the players say that "this class sucks" and "that class is overpowered", odds are that they are right.

Do we want it to be some sort of archaic chat room?
Ehh...okay...but we will still have to log to talk with each other.

I think I ended up writting a random rant. *shrug*

Posts: 15

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:55 pm

Post Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Game Reboot

[quote="Envenom"]Do we really have people eager to make it happen?

I think so, for the same tabletop rpg stuff you posted about.

A tabletop game can be run with maybe 5 people. We could have an imm and 4 players doing their own stupid little storylines on DR, no problem. If there's at least 5 people who give a **** we can have an RP going. we'd all be better off if everyone's willing to be both player and gm, but just a couple people is all it takes. and i see enough wasted passion about stuff to think that yeah maybe we could round up five people, some of them willing to "run" a show.

making a good game to play is harder than rp. it needs someone, multiple people, who can code. but to be kinda honest, i don't think dr needs to do this. there are lots of other good games that already exist. why try and make it ourselves and compete with everything else trying to be a good game? our selling point has almost always been the roleplay. to use your tabletop metaphor: why design your own game from scratch when you can use D&D or pathfinder or apocalypse world or mouse guard or some other game instead? focus on your story and the players, the game is just your medium

to get back to the op, we have a game that isn't very good for our rp. it took us over a decade to finally get some sort of mechanical thing put in for player-run clans, and even that still needs our gms to help us out. once upon a time the game (the mud itself i guess i mean) was a good fit because lots of people played the game for pk and such. now we have a group more interested in rp and kinda pvm. now we have a very gamey game when that's not working anymore. we need to add so much stuff and retrofit and overhaul that why can't we just do the grand do-over and start from step 1 with what we have in mind? if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit

similar but kinda tangety - there have been over a decade of different people with different visions for the game all steering things in different directions. no wonder we're a bit of a mess.

so the answer is easy: if we want a game, there are games out there already. if we want one, we can use one. it's probably better than what we have right now. but if our focus is on the rp, we have to fight against our game instead of working with it. either way, we need a new one.

oh, and if we want a chatroom, i'll start the channel on irc espernet

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