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Elementals

No matter the game - nerf mages.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:46 pm

Elementals

So, a nerf to mages has been brought up. The nerf is: Lower their regen rate a bit, while also raising the mana cost of elementals. The exact values have yet to be determined.

Posts: 47

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:18 pm

Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:05 am

Re: Elementals

I like this idea, my mage has 1900ish hp, and since I never cast haste on my casters if i get down to 500ish hp, I am full up in 2 ticsish to 1900 hp. I think thats a bit of bs, and 1k mana comes back pretty much from 0-1k in one-two tics.

While raising the cost of elementals won't do much. My mage will go from 1900 1k to 1800 1100 to off set the 1-4 mana point raise. Lowering the regen of them may help, or, leave them like they are but *waits for the slay* 2 elementals per round not 3. What is the exact number 3 2 3. why not just change that to 2 3 2, 2 3 2, "that" I think would be the better change.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:44 am

Re: Elementals

Based on what I just saw, elementals are a 2/2/3 cast(checked vs the horror)

Posts: 47

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:18 pm

Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:17 pm

Re: Elementals

Ok right, so moving it to only 2 per round, would help a little. I "think" the reason why they just seem so damn strong because of quest points. But you have to remember too, they don't get bashed in quests. Just my two thoughts.

Posts: 186

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Elementals

I agree, something needs to be done with mages. Maybe slowing their attacks to two rounds not three would help.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:56 pm

Re: Elementals

If the issue is only with quests, why not make 'smarter' quest monsters?

I mean...could always create monsters capable of bashing, blinding, energy-draining everyone fighting them.
Don't forget to make it work through blindness too.
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Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:54 am

Post Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: Elementals

Did some of this idea get implemented? I noticed last week that the mana cost of the flashfire/thunder/waterbolt/winter have changed. Thunder has been the least expensive until recently, now its one of the most expensive. When did this happen, and why? Sorry if I missed the discussion on it somewhere!

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:34 pm

Re: Elementals

Nothing from this forum post has been implemented....so the values that are in game have been in game for a while now...I don't know how long though, but for more than a year.

Posts: 319

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:22 am

Re: Elementals

So mages can:

    Hit Fire, Cold, Water, Thunder, Acid + Melee Damnoun + Vorpal Magic Damage Type. Water being a racial
    vuln (only 6 of 14 races can be hit by a class spell, while 5 have 0 vulnerabilities and 3 have vulnerabilities that
    do not exist in the game outside of incredibly rare quest equipment).

    Cast more, cheap damage spells that can hit racial vulns per round of combat than any other class.

    Optimize for HP builds because we have the only pure mage class that I can think of in any game that is HP orientated.
    They are normally glass cannons, not the tankiest class in the game. Mana is a secondary stat to a mage realistically.

    Have all caster based advantages : Charm, Gate, Sleep, Mirror Images.

    Consistently win / place in quests disproportionately getting first pick on better equipment options due to
    massive damage output unless the quest is tailored specifically to beat them.

They aren't good at:

    Shield block.

    Delvin

    Consistently landing melee damnouns

How can we best temper what they are into something more reasonable for a balanced game going forward?


Some Ideas:

1 - Reduce their damnoun list possibly into a single energy attack damnoun attack, or, alternatively, eliminate
the water damage attack with a magic damnoun attack to prevent elementals from hitting a specifical racial vuln.

2 - Change how elementals work to prevent getting the benefit of a massive HP total (plus mirror images), turning
elementals into mana dependent spells while increasing elemental spell cost should give mages a similar amount of
spellcasts as they're used to, while gaining other spell opportunities with an increasd mana pool.

3 - Increase cast lag. I'm putting this separately as I want to here the realistic thoughts of the pro-magespells
crowd.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.
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Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:54 am

Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Elementals

I hope to see some good ideas generated from this, but I just want to throw out an alternative line of thought.

The 'mages are over-powered' argument seems to come primarily from quests that are set up as 'who can hit the most'. Is this also a problem when it comes to mob hunting? Or pk? If mages are superior in all respects then maybe they need a nerf but if its only due to the design of quests than I would rather that time be put into figuring out different ways to measure quest score - not just for mages but to give a greater variety to quests in general.

It is an interesting dynamic that mage spells depend on HP, it makes them different and I hate to see interesting differences removed unnecessarily. On a lot of levels, the skills and spells the various classes get have a big amount of overlap. This HP dependence makes using a mage different from other caster classes - differences that we need to increase for variety rather than reduce. For what its worth, this is my least favourite idea for a mage fix. If they were changed to mana dependent casters, what other spell opportunities would this give?

In terms of cast lag, I'm unsure how I feel about this. I find when mob hunting that if a mob doesn't have an elemental vuln that I can take advantage of then some other classes outstrip my damage output due to having more attacks than me. In terms of PK, (you know nothing Yuneo, sshh!!)... racial elemental vulns should be all or nothing. Half of races having a vuln and the others not? Makes no sense to me unless those races with vulns that can be hit with a class spell get some other perk to compensate. I'd rather see racial vulns removed from chars and mages stay the same so that I can still be (sort of useful) when mob hunting.

edit: My main point: Mages probably need a good nerf on their power, but I don't want what little variety there is between classes to be nerfed for the sake of nerfing the POWER of a class.
Last edited by Yuneo on Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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