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Deathrot/Questrot

Archive of ideas that have been implemented or refused.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:36 pm

Deathrot/Questrot

While sitting here and bantering about PK, the following thought for alteration to deathrot and questrot occured to me:

1) Deathrot. As a player takes damage, their equipment deteriorates. This is essentially the same mechanic as most MMO's have. They would go to a repair shop and have the equipment repaired. This would also allow us to open a new trade to repair things, or build repair kits to sell to folks, etc. EDIT: Once completely damaged(IE broken), the equipment would simply cease to function(with regard to stats/ac). It would continue to exist, simply without any benefits until repaired. On KO, a large reduction in condition would occur, let's say 25% for now. on DEATH or MURDER and even large reduction...we'll say 75% for now.

2) Questrot. Essentially, it would be the same as deathrot with one added change - As the equipment becomes damaged, the bonus from the modifiers it gives also drops. So, at 50% damaged, it would be 50% hp/mana/saves etc.

Thoughts?

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:43 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Great ideas.

I'd add that additional change from questrot to deathrot too and differentiate both through different scalings. Something like:
- 1% damage = 1% less stats on deathrot
- 1% damage = 2-4% less stats on questrot

That durability thing is pretty great because it allows the creation of a lot of new tricks with old skills/spells.
Like...acid blast/water bolt/whatever AC 'rust' could instead cause 1% damage to the items
If a character blocks too many attacks, his shield is bound to be more damage: why not 1% damage per attack blocked?
If a character relies a lot on parrying, his weapon would also be more damaged: 1% damage per attack parried?
Also, disarm/dislodge attempts could also cause some damage, 5-10% : that way noremove items don't make the skills garbage
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Posts: 82

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:54 am

Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:09 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

This is way more interesting than sitting there wondering if all of your stuff is suddenly going to go POOF. When things get to 0%, are they still repairable? Or would that be the point where they become useless? I can already imagine everyone madly repairing all of their equipment before going into a Quest, just in case!
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:25 pm

Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:18 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

It seems like a giant goldsink to keep items you've already earned/paid for by continuing to pay for them.
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Posts: 124

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:25 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

What does this serve outside of a goldsink, a penalty, and an extra bit of information to keep tabs on over a dozen+ pieces of equipment? As-is, this is an active "nerf" to every player that wears deathrot but doesn't actually die, and a forced gold upkeep to play (equipment's shoddy? Better farm up gold to repair it before you can go bossing).

You have somehow made deathrot even less desirable to have. Who has ever had fun feeding coins into the eq repair parking meter? At least I didn't have to pay attention to my deathrot gear outside of actually dying. Now it's a burden.

The questrot's even worse, because now you have to actively pay attention to it *just to keep its stats up*. With the standards for questeq it'll become equal-or-less than stock in power very fast indeed. More than just not leaving safe because they have full questeq, people won't leave safe to even basic PvM because they don't want to maintain all their stuff.

And we get.... a repair tradeskill and repair kits, and "etc". Unless you have a whole lot of cool, exciting choices that really make you pick at your brain and do serious, meaningful decisions about your equpiment hidden behind the "ect", so far you have "We'll add equipment decay and it'll mean we can add ways to repair the decay". Whoop-dee-doo.
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Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:37 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

How much this is a nerf really depends on how it is implemented. Lets say for the first 20% damage your equipment performs as normal. After that, for each 10% damage the stats are lowered by a 1%. So really this barely nerfs people at all - a maximum 8% reduction to the stats your deathrot equipment give you. This is probably a bit mild, but its just an example.

So lets say actually dieing drops your equipment deathrot % by 50%. If you've been keeping any sort of eye on your equipment, then you will not have to worry about loosing that equipment based on your luck in a roll of dice. This is a huge plus. I would happily pay to repair my equipment every now and then if it means never having to worry about it rotting.

The 'every now and then' is something that needs figuring out. What sort of % damage would your armor take during a typical equipment mob fight? This would have to be low enough that mob hunting for gold/equipment is still worthwhile when you factor in the cost of repairing your equipment after every X number of equipment mobs.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Yuneo wrote:The 'every now and then' is something that needs figuring out. What sort of % damage would your armor take during a typical equipment mob fight? This would have to be low enough that mob hunting for gold/equipment is still worthwhile when you factor in the cost of repairing your equipment after every X number of equipment mobs.


That would have to be figured out via testing, tbh. You're right that it would have to remain low enough to allow for gold farming/eq farming to remain profitable.

Spidertown wrote:It seems like a giant goldsink to keep items you've already earned/paid for by continuing to pay for them.


That would also depend on how much it costs to repair. I imagine the better the gear, the more it would cost, but I don't actually see repair bills exceeding 20 gold, except possibly following a death. Fully broken gear at 0%, all questeq..maybe 75? The intention is not to make it a gold sink, but more to cause people to think about their equipment(without having to worry about the poof aspect currently in game)

Envenom wrote:I'd add that additional change from questrot to deathrot too and differentiate both through different scalings. Something like:
- 1% damage = 1% less stats on deathrot
- 1% damage = 2-4% less stats on questrot


I like the idea, though the values for the stats would also need to be determined for testing.

Landsknecht wrote:What does this serve outside of a goldsink, a penalty, and an extra bit of information to keep tabs on over a dozen+ pieces of equipment? As-is, this is an active "nerf" to every player that wears deathrot but doesn't actually die, and a forced gold upkeep to play (equipment's shoddy? Better farm up gold to repair it before you can go bossing).


Keep tabs on? Sure, if you consider the command "repair" showing all equipment damage status hard to keep tabs on, yes it does add something for you to think about.

Landsknecht wrote:You have somehow made deathrot even less desirable to have. Who has ever had fun feeding coins into the eq repair parking meter? At least I didn't have to pay attention to my deathrot gear outside of actually dying. Now it's a burden.


10-20 gold a burden in a game where one mob drops 10-20 gold? Figure out a better way to make gold.

Landsknecht wrote:The questrot's even worse, because now you have to actively pay attention to it *just to keep its stats up*. With the standards for questeq it'll become equal-or-less than stock in power very fast indeed. More than just not leaving safe because they have full questeq, people won't leave safe to even basic PvM because they don't want to maintain all their stuff.


If I recall, you also have to actively pay attention to hp, mana, and moves. MUCH more than you would ever have to pay attention to questeq. If you become OCD and spam the command to check repair status every other round of combat, that's on you, but the intention is to be able to go quite a few(4, maybe 5? to be determined) fights without the damage getting to any significant level....unless you die or are ko'd. So you lose 2 hp during a fight with the hydra, horror, miner, ulrethar and dardinas...is that an end of the world moment, or simply an "Oh, my stats dropped by 2 hp, might need to repair soon?"

Landsknecht wrote:And we get.... a repair tradeskill and repair kits, and "etc". Unless you have a whole lot of cool, exciting choices that really make you pick at your brain and do serious, meaningful decisions about your equpiment hidden behind the "ect", so far you have "We'll add equipment decay and it'll mean we can add ways to repair the decay". Whoop-dee-doo.


Etc isn't actually fleshed out at all. It simply opens the possibility for things to be done. For instance, Re-Envenom: Damage to type of gear altering the drop in stats. Or skills/spells doing direct damage to the gear. Of course, if you'd prefer not to discuss this topic, that is perfectly fine, however I could honestly do without the Whoop-dee-doo factor because I literally give zero fucks for it. Less snarky and more productive responses please Landsknecht, or i'll simply ignore the comments.
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Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:03 pm

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Kiirion wrote:Less snarky and more productive responses please Landsknecht, or i'll simply ignore the comments.

My comment was perfectly productive, Kiirion, you asked for thoughts and my thoughts were that the idea was bad and doesn't add anything meaningful. Now that you added some more concrete bits to chew on...

Kiirion wrote:I don't actually see repair bills exceeding 20 gold, except possibly following a death. Fully broken gear at 0%, all questeq..maybe 75?

Kiirion wrote:10-20 gold a burden in a game where one mob drops 10-20 gold? Figure out a better way to make gold.

So, equipment breaks down after a while, you repair it for a pittance. A single piece of equipment sold at Grank can cover the cost of repairs a hundred times over. What, then, is the purpose of a gold fee so insignificant all but the most newbie players would never possibly feel squeezed or dented by it? Even if fully broken quest EQ was 100 gold a piece to fix, you're still looking at under 2k to full repair, or a piece or two of boss eq at Grank. The only time this may ever have an influence in anything is...

1. You're PKing
2. There are abilities that degrade equipment
3. They are used sufficiently to heavily degrade your equipment
4. You're wearing enough degradable equipment
5. We're in the imaginary land where each 0% questeq costs 100 gold to fix.

At that point, maybe a 1k hypothetical cost to keep your stuff maintained would have a major impact on the game. As it is, the only person feeling 75 gold is the newbie in full quest.

Why not make it free? Why not make it cost more? An alternative cost that isn't gold? What does the minor gold fee do for the player or the game? When they see the minor gold fee, what are we wanting players to think or react? If there's no reason, just is, and is a thoughtless action, then it's cruft.

Kiirion wrote:So you lose 2 hp during a fight with the hydra, horror, miner, ulrethar and dardinas...is that an end of the world moment, or simply an "Oh, my stats dropped by 2 hp, might need to repair soon?"


Do things degrade simultaneously, or one piece of equipment at a time? Do all stats on questEQ degrade at once, or only one stat until it's 0 before the next one gets lowered? Is it a straight scaling of 0% to 100% effectiveness? For smaller stats in the 1-6 range (saves, stats, hitdam, etc), do they immediately lose one at 99%, or only at certain thresholds? Can a stat reach zero? Negatives? All of this affects the value of a given piece of questEQ, among other questions I've probably missed. It's also the difference between "My stats dropped by 2 hp" and "My stats dropped by 15 hp, 8 mana, a couple saves, and a bit of hitdam, and I'm no longer max strength".

Kiirion wrote:the intention is to be able to go quite a few(4, maybe 5? to be determined) fights without the damage getting to any significant level


So, we have a system where, every 4 or 5 fights, your equipment will reach a significant enough level where you might want to go and pay under 100 gold to fix it. If it's quest EQ, your stats will be gradually dinged until it's fully repaired.

1. Four or five fights, this is a decent amount of bossing before I end up getting bored with it myself.
2. The gold cost is minimal. Its impact on the economy is not going to be a whole lot compared to gold coming in, so as a goldsink it's a drop in the ocean. Tradeskills sink gold better, if anything.
3. Play-by-play the stat drops are minimal. I lose a couple stats fighting a boss, then, once the danger has passed/I flee its room, I can restore it to perfect quality. Barring extreme situations either in PK or mprogged to have occur, this has next to no impact in the PvMing mindset. In fact, the extent of it might be going to repair in addition to vendors/Otho.

The goal is to cause people to think about their equipment. Your proposal is a system that has minimal cost, minimal play-by-play stat impact, as said by yourself.

What is this doing? What about any of this will cause players to think about their equipment beyond rote maintenance? It adds to what players think about with equipment, but what does it add? What makes me giddy about a low-cost, low-impact repair system I check in on every once in a while? What about this system really enriches the decision-making about equipment?

The only possible thing I can see to make equipment repair a serious factor in equipment choice and usage would be if repairs themselves were difficult to do somehow. With a low gold cost, it'd likely be time or accessibility.

Your two suggestions were more thought for PK than PvM. If this is supposed to be a PK change, great, make it only when players attack other players and probably up the gold cost (like I talked about above) to make maintenance a notable factor in PK battles. It might even shorten fights, who knows, or make PK an even more difficult to get into because of the gold cost for it. Up in the air about that.

As-is, it might cause a spark of thought once in a while, but by and large is thoughtless.
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Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:46 pm

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

I can only add my perspective here. But what this adds is a way to absolutely NOT loose your quest equipment while out doing whatever it is you want to do - if you keep an eye on it. That is what it adds and why its worth it.

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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:06 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Will this possible and potential solution to questrot, deathrot be affected by quests? So if a major whack-a-mob quest is on, and the mobs are extremely hardcore, meaning the players have to engage with these mobs possibly and most likely more than five times, will this potential concept affect players during the quest? or will both the no_deathrot/ no_questrot nullify it?

I'm asking this on the assumption this actually goes to implemention stage. Considering at this point of time, most people partake in quests more than pk, and possibly more than mob-hunting.
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