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Archive of ideas that have been implemented or refused.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:57 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Landsknecht wrote:Even if fully broken quest EQ was 100 gold a piece to fix, you're still looking at under 2k to full repair, or a piece or two of boss eq at Grank. The only time this may ever have an influence in anything is...

1. You're PKing
2. There are abilities that degrade equipment
3. They are used sufficiently to heavily degrade your equipment
4. You're wearing enough degradable equipment
5. We're in the imaginary land where each 0% questeq costs 100 gold to fix.

At that point, maybe a 1k hypothetical cost to keep your stuff maintained would have a major impact on the game. As it is, the only person feeling 75 gold is the newbie in full quest.

Why not make it free? Why not make it cost more? An alternative cost that isn't gold? What does the minor gold fee do for the player or the game? When they see the minor gold fee, what are we wanting players to think or react? If there's no reason, just is, and is a thoughtless action, then it's cruft.

I think the repair cost should be higher: it's basically saving you from all the trouble of getting all the rot_death and rot_quest again.

Here's what I propose. The logic behind the costs is that an ordinary rot_death EQ is worth at least 1k and a quest EQ 5k.
5,000 / 100% = 50 gold per damage point
1,000 / 100% = 10 gold per damage point

Now considering someone running with 10 rot_death and 5 quests, that's 10,000 + 25,000 for full repair.
Depending on the rot_death EQs, it might be better getting new ones but I'm fairly certain that anyone would rather gather 25,000 gold than lose their questeq given their uniqueness.
Keep in mind that this is like a worst-case scenario if one takes the new satin gear (not rot_death) into consideration and that the Red Sands jewelry aren't rot_death either.

As for PKing...yea, it would be interesting if there were certain abilities (which I already suggested) that could degrade equipment.
Also, make it impossible repairing equipment during fightlag, otherwise people will just go to shopkeeper, clear damage and keep going.
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Posts: 158

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:25 pm

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Now that some gold numbers have been thrown out - no, it's not a giant gold sink in terms of cost - it's a few steaks at Esme's.

So I'll correct to: it seems to be a meaningless gold sink from the aspect that I'm paying gold for no benefit other than to keep the gear I already earned/paid for.

My single biggest beef with the idea is it penalizes players for participating in the game - which to be blunt, we have enough issues with players wanting to play without making it harder, even if the difference is a few gold.

Why not just charge players 1000g per item to remove the questrot/deathrot flag and be done with it vs coding in an entire new system? 2000g? More? Nothing?
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Posts: 124

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Yuneo wrote:But what this adds is a way to absolutely NOT loose your quest equipment while out doing whatever it is you want to do - if you keep an eye on it. That is what it adds and why its worth it.

This doesn't "add a way". If it added a way, we'd decide individually if we want our item to be rotdeath/questrot or the degrading system. What this does is replace the system entirely. Once it replaces rotting, we can't praise it on the merits of "things don't rot anymore at least so it's a good value", we appraise it on how robust the degradation system itself is because that's what would be in the game.

If we want to ADD a way to not lose your stuff, do what Spidertown said and make it a one-time semi-pricey payment to remove the flags. If you don't want it to be an Obviously Correct move, you could even make a decision between if you want the degrading system or the rotting... but whatever the alternative choice would be still needs judged on its own merits.

If we want something IN PLACE OF the current rotting system, I have a simple solution in mind: Remove it. Straight-up. No other changes, just get of the flags.

By removing it we have indirectly addressed a heap of problems related to "I don't want to participate because I might lose all my stuff" that rotting entails. The economic impact is up in the air but more than likely minimal: How fast do rotdeath things circulate out of the economy? Will a new glut of unrotting once-rotdeath things cause some weird supply inflation? Probably only on the level unrotting stuff like Strikers or generic stock eq is already at. Quest EQ is capable of having so much variety that searching for The Perfect Piece will still exist and be a source of demand, and in quest gear supply is limited by quests happening instead of free-farming.

The solution to the rotting conundrum is for there not to be a rotting conundrum, which is best done by just *taking the flags off*.

Envenom wrote:Depending on the rot_death EQs, it might be better getting new ones but I'm fairly certain that anyone would rather gather 25,000 gold than lose their questeq given their uniqueness.

Maybe not. Over time, the repair costs for your quest EQ will eventually exceed its value. If a piece of questEQ is worth 5k, how much are you going to pay over its value before the extra stats it gives you are no longer worth the maintenance? 10k in repairs? 20k? 50k? This somewhat depends on the value of a stat, but also how much fun the person is (or isn't) having paying the repair fee before deciding to stop .

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:45 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

The fact that your gear would no longer rot is some serious incentive for engaging in the game.
Here's two scenarios:
1. You die. Lose half your equipment. Spend one hour soloing ghoul, then 30' with hydra/horror, then 30' getting a cursed shield - with relatively poor gear
2. You die. Repair half of your equipment. Spend one hour making up for the gold loss - with your good gear

Yes, if you die a lot, you are bound to spend way more gold...but then it continues being easier getting that gold back.

Could also implement the idea of paying gold for removing the flags, but the values would have to be meaningful. Like:
Rot_death: 2k = 2 * 100% repair
Quest_EQ: 10k = 2 * 100% repair

Then if the player thought he would use the item for a long time, he could simply do that investment.
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Posts: 158

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:25 pm

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:22 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

I don't know of anyone who doesn't PvM/PvE because their gear might rot. At the risk of being snarky - if you die alot while farming gear, you're bad at this.

What this really does effect is PvP and unprotected quests. Which, again, if the cost is that minimal, why have a cost at all? If the cost will be significantly higher, then there is no incentive to leave safe.

Posts: 308

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

I would think more if we're worried about the effects of death, it's easier to penalize the player than penalize the gear.

If you die, why not just make it automagically hit your bank account for 5,000 gold versus implementing a complicated gear degradation system that will take weeks or months of Kesavaram's time and effort when I'm sure we as an overall group can come up with far more impactful things that can be changed. We have the same net effect without having to come up with the degradation system, implementing it, seeing if it's worth bothering with. (Also, I bring up the complication of coding in this instance because the issue of quest/deathrot has been on the table for some time - at least August if not back into July, and it seems something that would be brought into implementation fairly quickly if decided upon.)

With regards to the rotdeath/questrot flag, per Kiirion, he's more than open to removing it. I'd find paying a one time fee to remove the flag as a far better option than trying to work anything else in, honestly. Cheap or expensive, I'd pay it either way. It's just another step in getting to your 'finalized' equipment set, and realistically is 'optional', but it gives new characters a new set of goals to work in in making their gear 'rotproof'.

Yes, there are minor economy issues that have come up with what to do with questeq people don't want, but we already have started to implement other ways of churning through questeq (housing, for example, is a great way for me to use the dozen+ quest vials I never remember to use, regardless of how amazing they are, and you can turn in other pieces as well). This isn't in theory a hard system to expand on, and makes it so that participating in quests can help you expand on your role and character development in more ways than being well dressed.

I agree that there should still be consequences to dying, though, it all depends on what we want to have happen. If rot is removed, there WOULD need to be a PvE consequence to it all, as builders would be able to create VERY challenging content without worrying about people being dissuaded from the content because "I don't want to lose all of my stuff". I could see a long term (15-20 tick) non-cancellable debuff that's -30% to all stats HP/Mana/Saves/Hit/Dam/Str/Dex/Wis/Int/Con being a very real consequence. If you die to a boss, once you recover your things you're going to need to take some time to lick your wounds, think about what you've done, and try again later.

Add in considerations to trash in an area and how you have to get to a boss - don't die, it's going to suck and slow you WAY down.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

To be honest, I think we'd be better off without deathrot/questrot: it's not like the game has an active economy
That alone would let players explore the world without worries...oh well, getting killed on PK would still be a worry but then there's the other thread discussing limiting the number of looted pieces.

Yea, I changed my mind :D

Posts: 308

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:30 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Envenom wrote: it's not like the game has an active economy

More, I think it would allow us to shift the economy around as it stands because I agree what we have right now is fairly weak (look at the massive retreat in prices in the last 10 years, silver rings have gone from 10k to 2k and the mine master is no harder/easier than he was, despite the total amount of gold in the system going up). With people putting such a focus on being super careful, you don't see many deaths anyway. It would take some work to revamp how the games economy could work, but I'd think it's as doable of a process as any other revamp we've all discussed in the last few months.

All in all I'll give this some thought and start / add to a thread if one comes up before I have any ideas.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Posts: 186

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Post Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:59 am

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Well, as I said already in my previous post... Really, if this goes into implementation, you're forking out gold to repair your gear when you mob hunt, not just pk.

Now I know, the assumption is around 4 to 5 fights might be the max your gear can hold out, before needing to repair your gear. But that's just against a player in pk.. Let's say you're mob hunting the master ghoul or the hydra which does acid blast, or the master miner. All of these mobs do a greater damage output than a few fights in pk.

It's also fair to say the gold you make off the mobs hunting, most likely will cover the repair costs for the gear. But its food for thought anyway, I guess.

Posts: 308

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Deathrot/Questrot

Your comment just made me think too - the fact our PK can last for an hour+ easily makes me wary of this system. It's another needless complication to an already bad situation in my opinion.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

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