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Creation System v 2.0

Archive of ideas that have been implemented or refused.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

Except that all PKers run either sticky or noremove weapons, which makes disarm a waste of time.

Now if disarm ever gets buffed, then yea, players without hand to hand will be at a disadvantage.
However, I don't think it would be wise sticking to a fight without parry...most people unpack a new weapon as soon as possible.
But what if the opponent is blinded (which is the common strategy when using disarm)? Even bigger reason to flee.

Posts: 319

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:50 am

Re: Creation System v 2.0

Flestiraef wrote:... No because being disarmed has nothing to do with pole arms. Your missing the point. First off having a weapon skill at 100 percent helps you disarm that type of weapon. Secondly it's a pretty big deal to lose your weapon in combat especially when you weigh in blinds and strength modifiers. New characters will be completely screwed but older characters with the hand to hand skill will still be able to dish out some damage. Little things like this are so huge in the grand scheme of balance I'm a little disappointed that it was approved.


An incredibly rare situation where it would actually matter in PK is made even rarer by the complete and total lack of interest the player base has in PK as a whole. I would rather cater to potential new players by providing a simpler system that has actual everyday meaning and the currently existing players that would rather not lose access to what is mainly an expensive fluff skill (with current creation point calcs) that may have equipment tied to its use. There can be a far more creative solution to address any old interactions that may linger from any initial change (that isn't really being anticipated in any way) and continue to build off of the new system. The dynamics are going to change in the future as more new and existing skills are evaluated and classes are actually made whole.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Creation System v 2.0

A little data on disarm, as it currently exists:

The skill check that it applies start with checking the weapon type the disarmer is wielding. H2H disarmers suffer a penalty.

Next it checks vict vs disarmer. This check is: (disarmer skill in the victims weapon/2 - victims skill) / 2
So assuming both characters have 100 in the ability: (100/2-100)/2 = -25. I'll have to ask Kes to verify this, BUT the check is a chance += check, which means it only applies if it is a positive.

Next there is a dex and strength check...higher dex = higher chance to disarm. For strength, it takes your opponents strength, doubles it and subtracts that value from your chance to land the disarm.

Finally a level check. adds to chance: level - victim level / 2 (so at 50 from both = no affect)

So, assuming the victim has h2h at 100, disarm will act as it always has. If victim doesn't have disarm at 100, it'll land more...by about 50% if I'm looking at the numbers right. That *may* need to be adjusted.

As for being weaponless without hand to hand under the new system...It's supposed to suck for people that don't know how to fight without a weapon. I can't really make heads or tails of unarmed damage in combat, so i'll have to get Kes to take a look and tell me how it stacks up between an unarmed with 100% hand to hand vs unarmed without hand to hand. It may need adjusting to maintain balance, or a seperate check added for unarmed combat by non-Monk characters.

Posts: 80

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:07 am

Post Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:34 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

I know this is all about... like... facts and numbers. But I wonder as to why H2H has a disadvantage in disarm. It would seem if you're trained in hand to hand, you would be more likely to be trained to disarm your opponent, level the playing field, than the average person (I guess I'm really thinking of this as a monk-specific idea, but since the talk is making H2H monk specific in the creation proposal thread...). While an opponent with a weapon has a reach advantage, they also have considerably less control and flexibility over that weapon compared to the hand. Just... something I was thinking, or something to consider if H2H does become monk specific.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:37 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

At the same time there were various methods created by weapon-wielders specifically designed to get through a persons defense and disarm them.

Post Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

Catering to pkers? Ok you know what, your entire proposed idea is great but you are flat out WRONG if the proposed idea about letting 14 years worth of characters have this buff over new players who you claim your helping. Your doing the opposite. That very rare occurrence isn't as rare as you think. One of the only ways to beat some people is getting their weapon off through whatever means so they lose parry. I'm sorry but your reply makes me think you have never PKd and I am astonished that a non pker is trying to change anything about PK. Stick to your sage rooms and don't ruin it for those who do enjoy it.

Posts: 319

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

Flestiraef wrote:Catering to pkers? Ok you know what, your entire proposed idea is great but you are flat out WRONG if the proposed idea about letting 14 years worth of characters have this buff over new players who you claim your helping. Your doing the opposite. That very rare occurrence isn't as rare as you think. One of the only ways to beat some people is getting their weapon off through whatever means so they lose parry. I'm sorry but your reply makes me think you have never PKd and I am astonished that a non pker is trying to change anything about PK. Stick to your sage rooms and don't ruin it for those who do enjoy it.



Or my reply acknowledges that PK as a whole is completely and totally broken and given the 0-1 people who currently log on a night with any remote interest in PK, I think most people acknowledge that as well. The current system has withered and died over several years, and you were the last person to actually and truly be excited about it.

This change sets the baseline up to be able to overhaul MANY more systems in the game that will, without a doubt, 100% change PK in the future as well. You can't do things like make stats matter (which has been an ongoing project since about the inception of the forums), address major balance issues (pick a place to begin: Sharp, Mages, the list of new and existing spell and skill proposals), and make abilities far more interesting overall (there's a number of proposals floating around about actually directly attacking avoidance rates, which would address things like parry). You're actually correct as well, it isn't a rare situation. With 0 PK happening, it's merely a theoretical situation at this point that wasn't common when it was possible to occur.
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Post Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:20 am

Re: Creation System v 2.0

So quit ***** footing around and ban PK. This post has went from something I was excited about to making me sick to my stomach. PK is a part of Dark risings and I apologize if you never took the time to be any good at it. Some of us did but this is what happens when you pass the MUD off to people who... think like you.
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Posts: 159

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:25 pm

Post Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:51 am

Re: Creation System v 2.0

I'm not sure how the jump just happened from hand-to-hand being something only monks get (per this change) into 'destroying' pk, much less 'banning' it. As Kiirion said:

Kiirion wrote:As for being weaponless without hand to hand under the new system...It's supposed to suck for people that don't know how to fight without a weapon. I can't really make heads or tails of unarmed damage in combat, so i'll have to get Kes to take a look and tell me how it stacks up between an unarmed with 100% hand to hand vs unarmed without hand to hand. It may need adjusting to maintain balance, or a separate check added for unarmed combat by non-Monk characters.


If anything, the lack of PK on the mud can be laid at the feet of... pk'ers like you. The divide between people are excellent at pk and people who aren't, can't continue to be dealt with by saying 'Well go learn pk and stop being bad at it'. While it's a system you're very passionate about, at this point there are very few people who feel the same way. To continue to ignore the wants and needs of the vast majority of the people who log in every day because 'omg what about pk' isn't realistic anymore. That doesn't mean getting rid of PK, but it does mean change.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:08 pm

Re: Creation System v 2.0

As an update to this: Kesavaram is currently dissecting it, figuring out how best to go about coding it. This has been approved and is pending implementation.
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