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Armor Class

Archive of ideas that have been implemented or refused.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:58 am

Armor Class

I think it's about time Armor Class becomes useful for level 60 characters

+ Increases importance of tons of AC affecting buffs (Armor, Stone Skin, Shield, Battle Focus, Glory Spells, Fury...)
+ Increases importance of AC debuffs (Faerie Fire, Water Bolt and Ranger Arrows) + Vital Strike = buff to monks
+ Increases importance of AC on gear = buff to tailoring

- It requires some work in the coding in order of "fixing" whatever are the mechanics involved in landing attacks - my take is that the bulk of it involves a roll of Hit Roll vs. Armor Class, where current level 60 HR values are way higher than AC values, making it so there's little difference between having 300 and 600 AC against ~50 HR.

By the way, I'm under the impression that if attacks become harder to land, vorpal/sharp would become a lot more balanced: since the strongest classes at proccing vorpal are exactly the ones that suck at melee, they'll most likely have a harder time landing attacks (specially considering that very few run haste) and proccing these abilities...unless they sacrifice some HP/Mana/regeneration (haste)/saves for Hit Roll.

Posts: 33

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:23 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:40 am

Re: Armor Class

AC definitely needs to be made relevant again and I wasn't sure how to suggest how to do it.

Equipment needs to be re-balanced also, and an idea I had was to make hit/dam not be available on pieces with -svs or only have hit/saves or dam/saves, but not all 3. This would force you to pick and choose which pieces you want to use to reach "caps".
I'd also like to see less points assigned per item. Maybe level -10 with exceptions for the newbie items.

And while we're at it, make int/wis/con more important after leveling. I've heard they may already play a part somewhere, but I'm not sure where and how.
Int - Max int will give you a boost to mana regen
Wis - Combined with -svs to help resist debuffs
Con - Max con will give you a boost to health regen

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: Armor Class

Yes, I was planning on posting something about increasing the importance of all attributes, and its respective buffs and debuffs.

Before anything, stacking attributes beyond the allowed maximum of your race/class shouldn't grant any benefit.
Currently, a 'puny' character with 20 maximum strength can virtually have 36 strength through gear and buffs. The result is that, even wielding a heavy-*** sword (weight 16), someone would have to drop puny's strength by 20: something like weaken (-10), plague (-5), fester (-2), 2 poison stacks (-2 -2) - that's 3-5 spells landing in a relatively small window of time because fester doesn't last long and plague/poison can be easily healed...I'd probably get better results from spamming blindness...

Then there's also the issue of players being able to get any item out of their containers, regardless of amount of Strength (lowering strength decreases carrying weight capacity).
Meanwhile, if the same player has his Dexterity lowered by a significant amount (Dexterity influences maximum number of items carried), he can't get items out of containers.

Other than that, as far as I remember:
- Increasing strength also increases your Damroll: nothing big (~9 difference between 19 and 26 STR, would be significant if we weren't overcharged with DR)
- Increasing dexterity also increases your Armor Class
- Increasing intelligence increases your mana regeneration per tick
- Increasing constitution increases your hp regeneration per tick

And the ones I'm not so certain about:
- Increasing dexterity also increases your chance of landing skills
- Increasing constitution also increases your pushing and dragging capability and resistance.

Posts: 47

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:18 pm

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:07 pm

Re: Armor Class

Dex I think does skills like trip, armthrow, dirt kick, + if the char is hasted gives a bonus as well. also if the target is hasted or not.
I thought it was just STR for pushing dragging.
Wisdom also plays a role in mana regen.

Posts: 42

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:42 pm

Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: Armor Class

A quick few comments on str over your racial max. It is true that if you have a virtual 30 in Str, and your racial max is 20 you have to reduce a chars str below 20 before poison etc come into play during pk. So simplest fix here, make it so poison etc reduces your max str.

Now something that wasn't said however having str in equipment stats above your max does NOT affect your Damroll or the maximum weight you can carry. So it is a bit misleading to suggest that having strength over your max on a char gives you the effect of having a str higher then your max.

Something to be said however is if you drop an item and your str is less then required to lift the object you still cannot pick it up. For example, demons. I can remove an object and not pick it up again prior to demons making it so I drop an object over STR.

That said, you are spot on about your pk notes in regards to using spells. I find it almost pointless for the reasons you have mentioned to waste my time stacking plague with poison and weaken. Its far more effective to use spells like energy drain, dispel, or blind imo.

Posts: 319

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Post Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:39 pm

Re: Armor Class

So I was thinking AC today -

If AC is to be fixed, there's a few thoughts that each handle 'how it could work' in different ways.

Option One - AC Buffs avoidance. Less attacks land overall, big melee nerf (something > nothing, especially when there IS a ton of fully mitigated hits as is).

Option two - AC mitigates landed damage. Less of a nerf than option one (you're still hitting as often as you were before), but still a nerf (you do less per hit, flat out). I'd think this would be /preferable/, how would/should the Save vs Magic and Save vs the other damage classes stack up?

Another thought on AC: Any buff to AC slows down PK (less damage = more time), and it can already take a considerable amount of time. Is this something we want, or in fixing this do we want to consider and discuss other options to tweak things in order to maintain some semblance of pacing?
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, your OPINION, man.

Posts: 248

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 am

Post Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Armor Class

From the looks of it, AC works like your Option #1.
But I agree that Option #2 would be the healthiest for the game.

I think we could probably implement Option #2:
It's all a matter of finding the right formula for Armor = % Damage Reduction, something like:
DR = Armor / (Armor + X), meaning that X armor = 50% DR
Then, from there you can buff weapon's/spell's damage as needed, while knowing that extra AC will be useful

Say 1,000 Armor provides 50% less damage and you're fighting against someone with 500 Armor (33% DR).
Landing a faerie fire would end up increasing your damage output by 7.5% (400 Armor = 28% DR).

How marginal it ends up being is ultimately affected by the spell values (armor buffs and debuffs), but it would be nice if losing armor resulted in taking more damage, just like losing magic ward and sanctuary.

Posts: 186

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Post Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:34 am

Re: Armor Class

An old mud I used to play, in fact it was my first. The AC was in negatives as like DR. And its function worked exactly like option #2 mentioned.

The lower your AC, the less damage received overall be it melee or spell damage.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:58 pm

Re: Armor Class

As it stands, AC is useless. The reason for this is that hitroll of about 10 is all that is needed, per the code, to hit 95% of the time at an AC of about 300. For our normal 60 hitroll, ac would have to be 1200-1400 ish. This is currently in process of being changed/tested. AC WILL be viable soon. If your hitroll is too low, you will miss an attack BEFORE dodge/parry/shield block proc.

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

Post Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: Armor Class

An update: After some review, it appeared to be an easy code fix to make AC actually worth a damn. Once the change gets put into effect, players with a hitroll too low will miss an attack, before even checking against dodge, parry, etc. What this means is players will need to find a balance between their stats, including AC. Some equipment in game will have to be adjusted to give more AC(as most is built to minimum ac allowed per building guides since it was useless).

The values that we used in our calculations were: If a player has -400 AC, the opponent will need approximately 60 hitroll to hit 50% of the time. At 69, the player would hit 95% of the time(their is a hard coded 5% chance to always miss) At 51 he would have a 5% chance to hit(hard coded as well). These values are JUST for -400 ac. As the ac goes up or down, so doesn the hitroll required. -400 isn't going to be easily(or possibly at all) achievable via stock gear only.

I'm positive this will need some fine tuning as well. Melee classes stand to take a MUCH larger hit on their damage than magic classes so we'll have to keep an eye on that and potentially alter dodge/parry etc, or develop skills for the melee classes to counter avoidance rolls.

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